An Advanced Conversation About Lead Generation (+ Why Your Freebies Aren’t Working) with Samantha Burmeister

Do you want to grow your email list this year or sell more low-ticket offers? Who doesn’t?

Today, I’m thrilled to welcome Samantha Burmeister with Nomad Copy to the show. Sam is incredibly skilled at writing sales copy for entrepreneurs. Her claim to fame? Every business she writes for sounds like them—but converts better. Who wouldn’t want that?

In this episode, I got to pick her brain about all things lead generation (including the steps too many of us tend to skip). We all say we want to grow our email lists, but what does that actually take? We cover:

• How to create a freebie people actually want
• What copy to use on your landing page to capture emails
• How to turn leads into sales
• Tips for better calls to action (CTAs)

And as a bonus, Sam is generously offering her Clickable AF CTAs for just a dollar! Use coupon code KARAREPORT here.

I’m really excited about this conversation—so let’s get into it!

Listen on Apple | Listen on Spotify

Who is Samantha Burmeister of Nomad Copy?

I’m a copywriter, which means I craft the words for your website, sales pages, and emails. My ultimate goal? Helping you sell more—using the right words online.

Let’s set the stage! Would you say that one of the biggest myths about copywriting is that it’s a one-and-done process, when in reality, it’s just the starting point that should evolve based on data?

A lot of people believe you can just set up a funnel, forget about it, and magically generate leads and sales forever. But the reality is, you’re constantly evolving—your clients, your business, and the market are all changing.

Copy is scalable, but it still needs to be updated. Instead of a true “set it and forget it” approach, I like to encourage people to think about it more like, “why don’t we set it and revisit it in a few months” to keep it effective?

Most people listening have likely heard the typical advice: Create a lead magnet, write a welcome sequence, email your list regularly, and suddenly, money starts rolling in. That’s lead generation. But many of us have followed that formula and still find ourselves asking, Where’s the money? What do you think most people are getting wrong in this process?

I’m not afraid to sell, but I think a lot of people feel like they have to earn the sale first. With the best of intentions, they put out a free resource, give it away, and then fail to address their audience’s next problem.

Your freebie should solve part of a bigger issue—but if you stop there and pivot to telling your personal backstory, you lose momentum. Yes, personal connection matters, but your audience isn’t sitting at their computer eagerly waiting for that next email 24 hours later.

The real key to lead generation? Anticipate their next problem and guide them toward the solution. That’s where lead magnets become truly effective.

As service providers, our pricing often includes a comma—it’s a big investment to work with us. So the challenge becomes: how do we move someone from a freebie to purchasing a high-ticket package?

We often think about this process backward—for example, if you’re a wedding planner or photographer charging four or five figures, you might ask, What’s the first thing they need from me? and jump straight from thousands of dollars to offering something for free.

Sometimes this works—someone sees your beautiful work, requests a pricing guide, books a call, and hires you. But other times, it doesn’t. So how do we bridge that gap?

Instead of expecting someone to go from $0 to a major investment instantly, we need to understand their journey. What are they looking for right now? What’s the next step they’ll need before they’re ready to commit? That’s the foundation of a funnel—or what we sometimes call a value ladder.

Ultimately, we’re just creating a path that helps people feel comfortable making a significant investment with us (beyond just lead generation).

Do you think lead magnets are effective for lead generation for service providers, even those who feel their ideal clients don’t engage with free content? And if so, how can they make them more successful?

I do think lead magnets are great for everyone for lead generation, but there are a few ways to think about them.

First, does your lead magnet need to be free? A lead magnet doesn’t have to be free. Could you make it a paid lead magnet instead? Maybe a low-cost offer—like $9—or doing list swaps with other professionals. That might be one thing that’s not working: Are you making it free when it could be paid? People want to invest in things that have value.

Second, is your lead magnet getting in front of the right people—or enough people? I’ve had people say, “Nobody opts into my freebie.” Well, yeah, if it’s buried at the bottom of your website with no SEO, it’s not going to get traffic. If only six people visit your site each month—and two of them are your mom showing you off at book club—it’s no surprise that no one’s opting in.

So, how do you get it in front of better or more relevant people? That doesn’t mean spamming Facebook groups. It might mean self-promotion, list swaps, or other ways to get visibility.

Another factor to lead generation? Maybe your lead magnet just isn’t valuable enough. It could be positioned poorly or just not solving the right problem. It used to be that you could put out a simple PDF and people would download it. But now, like you said, some people aren’t looking for educational content—they’re looking to accomplish something.

So instead of offering “3 Ways to Know Your Website Needs a Redesign,” maybe you turn that into an interactive video or a self-audit tool that helps them decide if they should DIY their branding, leave it as is, or hire a professional.

The key with lead generation is making that first step more personal, more interactive, and something that actually helps people take action—not just something that could’ve been an Instagram post.

Do you have any fun lead magnet ideas that have been performing really well for lead generation in 2025?

A few things to consider—especially resources that can be personalized without requiring one-on-one interaction.

For example, as a copywriter, templates work really well. Designers can offer Canva templates, and social media managers can provide quick-win resources. Anything that gives people an easy, tangible win tends to perform well. I’ve seen Canva and Google Doc templates be very effective. The same goes for Pinterest managers—rather than just telling people “Here are the three types of pins you need,” give them three pin templates they can use right away for better lead generation.

There’s a difference between giving them a win versus just giving them education.

Another approach that works well is offering a low-cost next step right away. Using the Pinterest example again:

• You give them three free Pinterest templates
• Then, you offer a paid upgrade—like a full bundle of Pinterest and Instagram templates for $9 or $27

This way, it’s not just about how well the freebie performs on its own, but how it builds customer loyalty while also generating revenue from the start.

Why do you think so many people drop off on the landing page, even after showing interest in a lead magnet? And what are some key strategies to optimize the page and capture as many emails as possible?

I think there are two main reasons people bounce from landing pages.

First, it’s often unclear why they should download the freebie. When visitors land on the page and don’t immediately understand the value, they’re more likely to leave.

Second, it can feel too good to be true—which makes people skeptical. Sometimes, this happens because the page is too long. When the offer is framed as overly valuable or the page is filled with excessive copy, people may assume there’s a catch.

A third issue is poor call-to-action (CTA) placement. If the CTA is buried at the bottom of the page, people might never see it. You need to have the opt-in button above the fold—within the first scroll, whether on mobile or desktop—so visitors can take action immediately.

Also, if your page is too long—say, 16 scrolls—it can actually devalue the freebie rather than making it more appealing. No one should have to work hard to claim something that’s free. Ideally, your page should be two to three scrolls max.

To optimize your landing page, focus on three key elements

1. Why they should want it → This goes in your header.
2. What it is & how it’s delivered → This is your subheader.
3. How to get it → This is your CTA (e.g., “Download Now,” “Send it My Way”).

All of this should be concise—30 words or less—so visitors immediately understand the value and can take action without hesitation.

When we talk about lead generation, do you feel like you see any major landing page mistakes?

Yeah, I think those are both huge. Another big issue—just to reiterate—is not clearly communicating why people should want it.

For example, saying “Get the list of 30 things your pins need to have to be successful” tells people what it is, but it doesn’t immediately grab their attention. Before that, you need a strong, engaging header that pulls them in.

Instead, try something like:

• “Start getting twice the views on Pinterest.”
• “Double your clicks with these must-have pin elements.”
• “Create 10 pins in 10 minutes with these templates.”

Think about what your ideal audience cares about and what specific promise you can make.

At the core of it, people’s biggest concerns always come down to time, money, or risk. Your messaging should clearly show how your offer helps save time, save money, or reduce risk—because that’s what ultimately drives action.

How much data do you think we need before making changes to a landing page? What’s a good sample size to determine if it’s converting well? And are there any key metrics—like average opt-in rates or red flags—we should be looking out for?

A lot of this depends on where your traffic is coming from and how much traffic you can realistically handle.

For example, if you’re part of a bundle, summit, or list swap, hundreds of people might see your page, but they’re likely coming from a place where they’re grabbing multiple freebies at once. They’ll often click through, open everything, and then go back later to autofill their details. These leads might have a higher opt-in rate but lower engagement.

With ads, it’s different. That’s why tracking key metrics is so important. You should be monitoring:

• Click-through rate (CTR) – How many people click the link to your page?
• Bounce rate – How many people land on your page but leave without interacting?
• Conversion rate – How many visitors actually submit their info?

Tools like Facebook Pixel, Google Analytics, or other tracking tools can help you understand these numbers.

As for how much data you need, a good baseline is at least 100 visitors to your page. But the key is: How quickly can you get 100 quality leads through your funnel.

If you’re just dropping a link in a Facebook group with 30,000 members, that doesn’t mean 30,000 people will see it. Cold traffic like this often converts poorly. On the other hand, if your lead magnet is linked in podcast show notes or a summit, those visitors are likely more intentional about checking out your offer.

This gets into another conversation about tracking and segmenting leads based on where they came from, but keeping it simple—send at least 100 targeted visitors to your page and track as much data as possible.

As for a good conversion rate, it depends on the traffic source. But if less than 40% of visitors aren’t opting in, it’s likely a copy or messaging issue. The two biggest mistakes when it comes to creating a landing page for lead generation?

1. Not clearly telling visitors why they should opt-in.
2. Burying the opt-in form too far down the page—make sure it’s above the fold so they see it immediately.

How long should landing pages be for low-ticket offers? Given that lead magnets don’t always need to be free, do you think the long, multi-scroll sales pages we used to see for $17 offers are still effective, or are shorter pages performing better now?

For me and many of my clients, a single-scroll landing page has been the most effective, especially for order bumps and tripwires. Since the person is already clicking through and engaging with your offer, you don’t need to spend a lot of space building credibility—they’re already interested.

For example, if you’re a wedding photographer, you don’t need to use valuable space proving your expertise again. Instead, visually keep the page consistent and simple, especially if:

• It appears automatically on the thank-you page after someone opts in
• It’s an order bump where they can easily toggle an add-on before checkout

In these cases, your page should focus on three things:

1. Why they should want it – What problem does it solve?
2. What exactly it is – A clear, simple description
3. How to get it – A direct checkout option

For example, if your freebie is a wedding posing guide, you could offer a paid upsell like this:
“Before you check out, get my 20-minute, easy-to-follow video on the 10 essential wedding poses! You and your partner can watch it together to feel confident in front of the camera. Plus, you’ll get a guide to hand to your photographer so they know exactly what you want.”

Why they should want it? It saves time, ensures they look great, and eliminates stress on their big day.

What are your thoughts on skipping the landing page and leading someone straight to a Stan store or Thrivecart Checkout page?

I think it’s totally fine. It really comes down to understanding your audience, but the bigger question is: how are they getting to that page?

For low-ticket items, people usually know they’re clicking through to a sales page—they’re not surprised to be sold to. So it’s not about earning the sale, it’s about reminding them why they should want it.

From what I’ve seen, the more clicks required, the lower the chances of conversion. If someone has to go from your website to another page, and then to the sales page, you risk losing them—especially if there’s a slow load time. Attention spans are less than half a second now—if a page doesn’t load quickly, they’ll click away and forget about it.

So, there’s no harm in sending people directly to the checkout page for a low-ticket item. But again, it depends on your audience. The best approach? Test it. Try sending half of your traffic to a landing page first and the other half directly to the checkout page, then compare the results.

What final lead generation tips do you have on creating call to actions for our landing pages?

At a baseline, verbs are key—you’ll get more clicks if your call-to-action (CTA) includes an action word.

For example, while “Shop” can technically be a verb, you’ll often see emails from brands that just say “Shop.” But that’s vague—are you taking me to a store (noun) or asking me to shop now (verb)? It’s not compelling.

Instead, strong CTAs use clear, action-driven verbs:

• “Get it now”
• “Download here”
• “Claim your spot”

To take it even further, the most effective CTAs use transformation language—words that tap into the reader’s aspirational identity. A powerful word here is “become.”

For example:

• “Become a Pinterest rockstar” instead of “Learn Pinterest strategies”

By focusing on the future outcome and personal transformation, your CTAs will go from good to A+ level—leading to higher click-through rates and better engagement.

Where can people find and connect with you to learn more?

Yeah, absolutely! You mentioned the Clickable AF CTAs, which you can grab here for just $1 using the code KARAREPORT.

You can also find me at nomadcopyagency.com or on Instagram at @nomad.copy. I’m also on Linkedin here!

LINKS MENTIONED

• Learn more about Sam at Nomad Copy
• Follow Sam on Instagram
• Learn more about working with our marketing agency here
• Follow me on Instagram