Buckle up—today’s episode is both the permission slip your website’s been waiting for and a bit of the kick in the butt it probably needs. I had the pleasure of interviewing Sara Noel of BTL Copy. And if you don’t already know her, get ready to fall in love with the internet’s most unapologetic, hilarious, no-BS copywriter.
Sara is a website copywriter, marketing mentor, unapologetic squirrel (aka ADHD-er), champion of single moms, the world’s loudest Noah Kahan fan, and the proudest, F-bomb-dropping New Englander you’ll ever meet. Her students call her the queen of over-delivering—and honestly, as someone who’s been in her programs, that’s 100% accurate.
She’s wicked obsessed with helping business owners write website copy that actually sounds like them and converts. This episode is packed with tangible tips, real talk, laugh-out-loud moments, and so much value.
Make sure you listen through to the end—Sara’s sharing all the ways you can learn from her, including an upcoming free masterclass called “I’m Cool, But My About Page Isn’t.” Trust me, you’re going to want in on that.
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Table of Contents
Who is Sara Noel of BTL Copy?
Sara Noel is a Website Copywriter + Marketing Mentor for business owners who want to craft compelling narratives and build better connections with their ideal clients and customers. Through copywriting, marketing strategy, and mentorship, she helps creative brands, founder-first businesses, and freelancers create, tell, and sustain their success stories—with an emphasis on embracing their authenticity + attracting their ideal audiences.
When Sara’s not drafting website copy, teaching her students about content marketing, or sending an excessive amount of audio messages in response to a mentee’s question, you can find her nose-deep in an Elin Hilderbrand novel, dreaming up her next project, impulsively getting another new tattoo, or entranced in a stranger’s life story (because, yeah, she has that “tell me about your whole life!” face).
To get to know Sara—and learn from her tons of free marketing tips—visit her online at betweenthelinescopy.com, on Instagram @btlcopy, or subscribe to her newsletter, the Tuesday Table of Contents.
If someone has AI-written, “good enough” website copy, what would you tell them?
Stop—no, no, no, I’m just kidding. I won’t tell them to stop, and I definitely won’t say delete. Because honestly, they’re doing significantly better than most people who don’t have a website at all.
One thing I’m super passionate about is building your foundation before building your following. So even if you have a boring, AI-generated website? I’m actually proud of you—for having a website at all. So, slay.
What are some signs your website copy could be doing more for you?
I think anytime you’re using something that leans more generic than specific—and I’m saying it that way on purpose—it’s worth looking closer. A lot of people think, “Okay, if I just throw in the name of the industry I’m talking to, or if I identify one problem, that means I’m being specific and doing a good job.” And honestly, that’s a great start.
But you can almost always go deeper. The number one thing I notice is that people aren’t really willing to say what they actually want to say. They kind of dance around it—say something that feels close enough, good enough, or the worst one: “professional” enough.
Then they assume it’s specific enough and never go back to it. They grow, they learn more about their ideal client or industry—but they don’t update anything to reflect that growth, their expertise, or what they’ve learned about their community. And they definitely don’t say anything different from what everyone else in their industry is saying.
How often do you think people should go back in and update versus do a complete rewrite?
I think that’s a good question, and the answer is pretty nuanced. I can’t just say, “Okay, every two years, go back and update it.” It really depends.
If you’re a beginner—actually, I’ll just speak from my own experience, because honestly, I don’t know what your situation is if you’re listening right now. But for me, in the beginning, I updated my website all the time. I was constantly tweaking my pricing, my packages, and adjusting things as I learned more about who I wanted to work with—and who I didn’t.
A big part of that learning came from discovery calls. People would tell me why they were reaching out, what they needed help with—and that was gold. If you’re not already doing this, record your discovery calls (or get the transcripts) and actually go back and read them. You’ll pick up on the exact language your ideal clients are using, and it’ll help you write stronger, more aligned copy.
So back then, I was updating my site constantly.
Now? I haven’t updated the main copy on my website since 2022. I’ll update my testimonials or add new ones, but the core messaging has stayed the same. That said—I’m actually in the middle of a website refresh right now, just to better reflect the expertise I have now compared to back then.
So here’s my real answer:
Until you feel truly confident that your website clearly and accurately communicates:
A) how cool you are,
B) what you do, and
C) your expertise—and why someone should choose you over anyone else—
…it’s still a work in progress.
But once you do feel confident in it, that version of your website can last you three to five years. The only reason you’d need to make major changes is if you change—your ideal client shifts, your services evolve, or your brand moves in a new direction.
Like I said, I haven’t touched my core website copy in three years—and I still get consistent inquiries every single week.
When it comes to website copy tips, what are some of the cardinal rules of copywriting? I know in Site Series you share like 17.
Okay, the one I already started talking about earlier—I think rule number one is: just say what you actually want to freaking say.
I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been on a call with a student, a client, or just someone talking about their website, and they say something like,
“Oh yeah, I’m a [whatever] for [whoever], who helps with [whatever].”
And the way they explain it? Super clear. Very detailed. Obvious. Easy to understand.
And then they immediately follow it up with,
“But I can’t say that.”
And every time, I’m like—Bitch, why?
For what reason can you not say that? Who told you that?!
Here’s what I want everyone listening to know:
Yes, there are some general guidelines for what should go on each page of your site—just to help your site convert better—but there are no rules for your website copy overall. Like, truly, you can say whatever you want.
One of my clients has a headline on her About page that says:
“What should I do with my hands?”
And if you saw her site, you’d know—that line fits her perfectly. It works because it’s her. And it helps her connect with her audience way more than a basic headline like,
“Meet your wedding photographer.”
Shut up. I don’t want to read that.
I want your story to meet my story. I want it to be engaging. I want to feel your personality. I want to feel seen and validated.
So rule number one? Say whatever the fuck you want to say.
People would much rather you be direct and real than dance around in some “professional” version of yourself that some random person on the internet told you to be.
Listen—I’m a random person on the internet too, but I’m telling you: say what you want. It’s going to be fine.
Stop second-guessing your copy so much.
Rule number two? Delete the fluff.
No fluffer nutters allowed. (Any New England listeners? No?)
Okay, a fluffernutter sandwich is white bread, peanut butter, and marshmallow fluff. I’m telling you to take the fluff off.
Peanut butter only.
You know what I mean—the fluff words, the filler lines. I can’t actually identify for you what the fluff sentences are, because you know the ones that are on your site that you’re like,
“Okay, let me just throw this on here.”
It’s probably something like:
“Ready to get started?”
“Ditch the [whatever], you know you want to.”
Blah blah blah.
The stuff you put in your call to action because you ran out of steam and didn’t know what else to say.
Honestly? Ditch “ready to” in general.
I hate seeing a “ready to” on a website.
Fucking obviously.
Do you have any website copy tips for infusing more personality if we feel like we don’t have anything interesting to say? Like how do we avoid saying “I like coffee” or something that sounds the same as everyone else?
So this is what I call—both in the course and just in general when I talk about it—seemingly irrelevant details.
If you were to go to betweenthelinescopy.com/about right now, number one: I’m not talking about coffee. For two reasons.
First, I hate coffee. I think it’s disgusting—nasty bean water—and I refuse to drink it. My level of hatred for coffee is so intense that I won’t even share a spoon with someone who’s had coffee ice cream. That’s how serious I am. And I’m not a picky eater at all. It’s just… not my thing.
So that’s reason number one.
Reason number two? It’s boring. I don’t understand why every entrepreneur on planet Earth decided they wanted to connect over coffee.
And just to be clear—I don’t want this to be misconstrued on a recorded line—I’m down for the coffee shop vibes. I would love to connect over coffee. I literally host a coffee shop at my house every Tuesday called Bean Water Café. But I don’t understand why we needed to make drinking coffee our personality.
I promise you: there are so many more interesting things about you.
So if you go to my About page, you’ll see stuff like:
— I’m a hoe for italics.
— I’m telling you what’s in my Notes app.
— I’m telling you my child’s favorite dinosaur.
— I’m trying not to brag about my three bachelor’s degrees.
— I’m talking about being a chocolate addict with no intention of seeking recovery.
Those are the little tiny things I’ve infused into the copy—not in a full section, but mentioned casually while explaining something else.
Like, I think I say on the About page that we all probably have a load of laundry sitting in the dryer right now that’s been there for three days. I relate that to how you might be putting off writing your website copy because you don’t know where to start.
It’s stuff like that—using specific references from your life that let people get to know you almost by accident. They’re learning about you through the examples you choose and the way you talk, not because you sat down and said,
“Hi, I’m Sara. I love chocolate and hate coffee. I’m a hoe for italics.”
I’m not saying that. But I am using examples that help you feel like you’re learning about me, even if I never say those things directly.
If you were to stalk someone’s Instagram—like mine, for example—today I posted about a free workshop I’m teaching called “I’m Cool, But My About Page Isn’t.” It’s all about how to make your About page better. It’s on April 17th, and I don’t know if you’ll be able to catch the live version or just the recording, depending on when you’re listening—but either way, you’ll be able to watch it.
So I posted about it on Instagram with a picture of my mood board for the workshop. And it’s literally just a shot of my computer with Pinterest open. Next to it, there’s a workbook for this mastermind I’m in, and Ina Garten’s cookbook Parties. That’s what was sitting next to my computer.
From that photo, you could say:
“Oh, she has an Ina cookbook. She probably likes to bake.”
Or: “She’s weirdly obsessed with Barefoot Contessa.”
Or: “She’s using that blue pen…”
You can see things in the photo and learn things about me—without me having to say,
“Hey, I collect Ina Garten cookbooks.”
That’s what I want your copy to do.
And just to clarify—yes, I’m still saying be direct, be specific, say what you actually want to say. But I don’t think the elements of your personality—these seemingly irrelevant details that people actually connect with—need to be forced into your copy.
I do think you can naturally weave them in by using them as examples.
I know we are talking about website copy tips, but that’s a really great point about tying in visuals. Anything you’d add to that?
I think people forget how important it is to consider your website as a whole product.
I can sit here and talk about website copy until I’m blue in the face—but if you have bad website design? Girl, nobody’s going to read it. People will click out before they even get the chance to see your really good copy.
Yesterday, I was doing a copy audit for someone who bought one from me, and the copy was actually really good! But she had two issues.
First, she was hiding all the really good copy in a paragraph. Like, her headlines were stuff like:
“Our Method.”
Bitch, I do not give a fuck about your method.
But if you take that one awesome sentence buried in the paragraph—something that’s actually really compelling—and use that as your headline? Now I’m in. I’m opted in. I want to read the next sentence.
Which, by the way, is exactly what copywriting is.
Yes, it’s “words that sell things,” obviously.
But it’s also just making someone want to read one sentence… and then the next one… and then the next one. That’s the whole point.
So that was one note I gave her.
The other note?
The design sucks.
Your copy is really good—I’m honestly glad you booked the audit because now I can validate that for you. But it’s in the wrong spot, and the design isn’t showing it off the way it should.
So yeah—design is actually super important. And so are the visuals that go with it.
Do you have a structure or anything that you follow when you’re thinking of headline and body copy?
I don’t personally have a structure—but can I answer the question that you’re trying to ask?
So with that person specifically, I think something people do in website copy—without even realizing it—is they use headlines like they’re writing an outline for eighth grade history class or whatever. You know what I mean? When your teacher teaches you like, “Okay, this is what a headline is…”
Actually, I think you learn that way before eighth grade, but whatever. I don’t know when you learned it, but it was definitely at a point in your life that was significantly less advanced than where you are right now.
So people tend to treat those headlines and subheadings as section titles. Like, just little notes about what you’re going to read.
I don’t want you to do that.
I want you to put the best thing—the most enticing, engaging thing—as your headline.
I don’t want to see:
— My Story
— My Services
— My Method
Like… I don’t give a fuck about that.
I want you to use the big text to make someone want to read that section.
So put the pain point there.
Put the really impactful testimonial there.
Put your client’s actual words there.
I want your About page headline to be something like:
“What should I do with my hands?”
Something that makes people curious enough to keep reading.
Because a lot of people get super focused on the technical side—what you have to include, or the SEO of it all—and they forget: a real person is going to read this.
So above all else, it needs to be engaging.
Your goal is to get someone to inquire. Or buy. Or take some kind of action.
And if you can’t even get them to read far enough to understand what you’re offering…
How do you expect them to inquire?
How do you expect them to buy?
How do you expect them to do anything besides skim the site and bounce?
So yeah—I think: stop using your headings as just headings.
That’s actually my structure.
You break the fourth wall often in your copy, is that something you recommend for everyone?
Yeah, just naturally doing that is very on-brand for me. That’s something I do a lot.
I don’t know if I suggest that for every single person’s website because I don’t know that it makes sense for everyone’s industry or everyone’s personality even.
But I do think a place that it could work for potentially everyone is a newsletter or Threads or even Instagram.
Earlier today, like I said, I posted that picture of my computer, and I just felt like doing it, right? I have no Instagram strategy. That’s the one thing I’m not planning. If you ever see a feed post from me, just know that that happened in my brain seven minutes before you saw it. I was not planning this at all.
So I typed the caption in Instagram—which apparently the girls say don’t do that. Whatever. I didn’t know that because I’m a boomer.
So I typed it in there and then I post it on Instagram. I go to post it on my story. I’m like, that’s weird, why isn’t the caption showing? Then I look again—it’s gone.
I’m like, okay, I either clicked backspace, I’m dumb, or I… something glitched, whatever.
So then I wrote the caption again. And then the new caption I was like,
“Okay, so I posted this and there was no caption, but just kidding about that caption. Let me just write this again.”
That kind of breaking the fourth wall—I do do that all the time.
But like I said, I’m not sure I recommend it for everyone’s website. However, I do recommend approaching it with a similar energy.
So you don’t necessarily have to say,
“You’re reading this right now, nodding your head wondering what the fuck is this girl talking about?”
You don’t have to say things like that.
But think about what it would be like to just talk to that person and what they are thinking about at that time.
So I think you don’t have to literally break the fourth wall and address them through the screen in that way, but I do think you should think about their response—or their potential response—to reading it, and then maybe use that as info for your copy.
You’ve shared so many great website copy tips today! Any website copy tips that are something quick we can fix right now?
Your About page headline. I didn’t mean to make this whole podcast about About pages—I just have it on my mind because I literally launched the waitlist for that workshop today.
But your About page headline—whether I had About pages on the brain or not—that’s what I’d be sharing with you.
Don’t you dare let me catch you with:
— About Us
— Our Story
— Meet the Team
You can do better than that. I actually promise you.
Same deal with contact page headlines.
I don’t want to see:
— Ready to get started?
— Let’s work together
— Inquire now
— Work with me
— Work with us
I don’t want to see any of that.
Those are the biggest offenders.
Really—my biggest offenders.
Like, I’m actually giving you an F.
I don’t care if you’re in the course or not.
I don’t care if I’m in your ears right now and I’ve never seen your face in my life—F, if you have those things on there.
Headline Website Copy Tips
What I want people to know about headlines, specifically:
Your homepage and your services page headlines are the ones that matter the most.
Those are the ones where I’d prefer you have a keyword-rich headline.
So I want your keyword somewhere in that headline.
It’s super easy. If you don’t know how to do that, literally say:
“[Keyword] for [insert industry] who want [insert thing they want].”
For your services page, try:
“Adjective + keyword for [industry],”
or
“Adjective + keyword for [industry] who want [desired outcome].”
You could literally say:
“Website copywriting services for creatives.”
Whatever. That’s fine.
Not Every Headline Has To Be For SEO
But for your About page headline… okay, let’s rewind a little bit.
What I want you to know about SEO and headlines in general is:
If we’re thinking about SEO, right—Google wants to send people to the best solution to a problem, or the best answer to a question.
And most of the time, that’s going to be your homepage, your services page, or a blog post.
Rarely is it going to be your About page—unless someone is literally Googling:
“Who is Sara?”
“Between the Lines About Sara Noel.”
You know what I mean? Unless that’s what they’re searching for, your About page probably isn’t the answer for them.
So Google’s going to show them a different page.
Which means: we can be more creative with the About page headline and content.
Because people aren’t usually finding you through your About page. They’re going there once they’re already on your site and want to learn more about you.
So that’s why I’m saying:
I don’t want to see About Us, Meet the Team, or About Between the Lines Copywriting.
Shut up.
I want you to say something fun.
Something that sounds like you.
Something personality-packed.
Something that makes me want to keep reading.
Website Copy Tips For Your Contact Page
And then the contact page? Girl—that’s the last thing they’re seeing before they inquire.
Okay, I don’t know about you, but I’m over here charging $8,000 minimum for my services.
You think I’m going to get away with “Contact”? I don’t.
They’re going to be like,
“Let me go find a copywriter who actually knows how to write a contact page.”
We forget that the contact page is low-key your moneymaker.
That’s the last thing they’re going to read before they decide to reach out. Here’s a whole blog post about it.
Imagine sending a goodnight text to your lover… and then they never wake up.
(Sorry that’s cryptic.)
But like—that’s the last thing they ever see?
And you’re gonna hit them with:
“Goodnight.”
No. I don’t think so.
Not me killing off your partner—so sorry. I hope they’re well, actually.
Yeah. I hope they do wake up to that text.
But even so—okay, let’s pretend like they didn’t die in this example. Let’s pretend they woke up, and now they’re going to have a great day because they saw that text.
Okay—approach it with that energy.
I don’t know where that example just came from. Clearly, I’m going through something.
That’s a lot of energy.
What are your thoughts on CTAs throughout your website copy?
I mean, for my services page, all of those go straight to my contact page—because if you’re on my services page, that’s enough to convince you.
I do think that the way people find you is usually going to be either through your home, services, or a blog post.
That’s what I expect to be the entry point to your site—depending on how you’re marketing yourself.
If it’s from Google, those are the three I’m assuming they’re landing on.
If it’s from Instagram, maybe it’s your links page, and you’re explicitly telling them where to go.
Or maybe it’s Pinterest, and they’re clicking through from a blog.
It just really depends on how you’re marketing yourself.
But no matter how you slice it, those three—home, services, and blog—are going to be the main ones.
So I think it’s fine to send people straight to your contact page—especially if you have an optimized contact page.
But one thing I think could be improved is your actual blog page and each individual post.
To me, I want that blog post to have what I call a mini about.
Like:
“Hi, I’m Sara. Website copywriter, marketing mentor, unapologetic girl who will be swearing. I love you. I’m going to help you with your website copy. Click here.”
You know what I mean?
So if someone’s on Pinterest and they type in “homepage tips” or whatever—they’ll find me.
Because if you search anything website related, you’re going to find your girl all over Pinterest.
So maybe they click on a blog post I wrote in 2021, and I have no idea that you—in 2025—are finding me that way.
But you’re still going to learn who I am because I have a little “Hi, I’m Sara” sidebar.
I have a little mini about at the end.
And I have a services overview at the bottom.
So I want people to know who you are and what you do on every page of your site, in some capacity—whether it’s them being able to easily click another page to find that out, or seeing it explicitly on that page.
Learn More Website Copy Tips with Sara Noel
Site Series Sprint is definitely how I’d recommend you learn more about writing website copy. It’s the easiest website copy course on the internet.
I mean, obviously I’m biased—but people have actually told me that. That’s a real quote from multiple people, so I swear I’m not just making that up.
It’s super comprehensive, honestly, and pretty affordable for everything that you learn. And I’ll even review your website copy for you if you submit it to me.
If you’re not in a place to invest in a website copy course or website copy education at all—hello, can I speak—if you’re not in a place to invest, I have a ton of free blog posts about it too.
And I also send a weekly newsletter—every single week—usually about website copy. So we can link those for you in the show notes.
I’m @btlcopy everywhere—not BLT. I’m not a sandwich. I’m just a copywriter.
Between the Lines Copywriting is the name of my business, and you’ll find me everywhere. If you Google “website copy,” I’ll come up—and that’s how you can find me.
LINKS MENTIONED
- Sign up for Sara’s I’m Cool But My About Page Isn’t Workshop
- Read Sara’s blog post on Contact Pages
- Learn more about Sara at BTL Copy
- Follow Sara on Instagram
- Learn more about working with our marketing agency here
- Follow me on Instagram
